My guest is near and dear to my heart —my daughter, Niara.
In this episode, Niara talks about her experience with sexual frustration and the hurdles she faced while trying to reconcile the libido discrepancy in her relationship. Niara’s story may inspire many of us, as it can be challenging to express our desires.
She also discusses her relationship with intimacy, penis envy, and personal limits.
Chatting with my 20-something-year-old daughter reaffirmed how vital communication is in any relationship. And the role of self-reflection to truly understand and express ourselves.
Niara’s story also underscores the importance of having patience, empathy, and respect for our partners as we navigate these complex issues together.
Much of what she said resonated with me; you might feel the same. It was a conversation I won't soon forget.
Episode 1 Transcript
Stacey:
Okay. So you were talking about being sexually frustrated and how that shows up for you.
Niara:
Oh yeah. I don't experience sexual frustration often, but when I do, um, it turns into aggression. I definitely see how men, um, actually all people cuz, you know, get rid of the stigma that men are the only predators. But I definitely see how people get so frustrated that they think to take it out or don't think and act to take it out on other people.
Stacey:
How have you seen that for yourself though?
Niara:
Um, more so in like fantasy, not so reality. Like, when I am having sexual thoughts, it's usually about me doing something aggressive. Whereas like if when I'm not sexually frustrated, I'm more like, I wanna be more passive and submissive in, not all the way, I'm not a sub, but in, um, sexual acts.
Stacey:
Maybe more soft, maybe is, a better word?
Niara:
Yeah, that might be a better word. Whereas like when I'm sexually frustrated, it's like, girl, like it's, it's um, it's like a guttural feeling deep down in the pit.
Stacey:
That's interesting. I'm sitting thinking about, now I'm thinking about like, when was the last time I was sexually frustrated? I think it's been so long that I don't remember how it really shows up for me.
Niara:
Hmm. Mine's been consistent since like adolescence though. I've, like, that's literally where it's always coming from for me.
Stacey:
Hmm. I, yeah, I don't, I don't, um, I don't remember the last time and maybe I haven't had the awareness of being sexually frustrated. I mean, I can think about when I've had slow seasons during those times I just masturbated more. So I'm not really sure if, if I really got to the place of frustration,
Niara:
Even when I masturbate I'm frustrated.
Stacey:
That's interesting.
Niara:
Because it's about the, like, I like sex. Like I do enjoy masturbating and stuff, but what I love, what I like, what I get the most pleasure out of is having the experience with another person.
Stacey:
I think that that's true for me too. And that's changed for me in terms of what that looks like with age. Um, I think for a good portion of my adult life, I, I think for maybe, probably, you know, like definitely in my twenties, um, and into my thirties, I think I really did not recognize anything that did not involve penetration as sex. Like, I didn't have a, I didn't paint sex with a broad brush. It was a very specific, and I think that that was just social conditioning. And then as I got like, probably really probably like, probably about 33, I think that that really kind of shifted for me where it was like, cuz then I found, I really discovered that there were things that I liked just as much as penetration, which meant that that didn't need to be a part of the thing.
And now that I'm, now that I'm older, sometimes I don't even want penetration. I want to have sex that doesn't involve that sometimes. And part of that is, you know, some of it is just sometimes I don't wanna deal with the mess of penetration. When I say that sometimes I guess I'm talking about penetration that finalizes in a finish for the other person. So sometimes I don't want that. Then sometimes, sometimes I feel like what I'm really wanting is physical intimacy that also includes pleasure, but the physical intimacy is the first part. And when I'm feeling like that I don't actually need PIV like I don't need penis in vagina. Like, can we get some lips and tongues and fingers? And, and that's enough for me.
But I think as a younger person, I didn't have any other definition for sex. And I guess maybe I experienced frustration then because my definition of sex was so narrow. And now that my definition of sex is so much broader and I have a much greater appreciation and an actual awareness of what intimacy is, I am often craving intimacy way more than I'm craving sex. You are so much younger than I am. So how does intimacy fit in, is that even part of sexual frustration or I guess my question is, is your sexual frustration always about being sexually frustrated or is there a desire for intimacy or an intimacy need that's not being met?
Niara:
I think it's always tied in for me. I don't think that there is a separate — no, that's not true. Because I enjoy sex that lacks a certain level of intimacy. I think currently, I am in the season when they are interconnected. And I mean that to say that I, because I am, can we talk about how I'm sexually frustrated while having a regular, a regular sexual partner?
Stacey:
Yes. Yes. We, we can talk about whatever you wanna talk about.
Niara:
It's not that there's a lack of sex, but what I'm realizing is I'm not having my idea of a full sexual experience. There are many things that complicate that, that I won't delve into too much. But I will say one thing for sure is I'm not having enough foreplay. And I think the foreplay part ties into the intimacy more than the actual penetration does. So, yeah, I think that intimacy is not always what I am craving. But I think that I notice when I have someone I'm regularly having sex with or a reoccurring partner, that foreplay becomes a bigger deal. You know, you gotta spice it up, it gets boring. So, you know, once the excitement of the new person wears off...so, yeah, I think that currently, it ties into that.
Stacey:
You know, I'm thinking about my favorite sex therapist or relationship therapist, Esther Perel. She says that a lot of times when relationships and, and by this I'm, I'm mostly talking about, heterosexual relationships. And that doesn't mean that that's all she's talking about. But that's what I'm talking about right now. In heterosexual relationships when they become sexless or there is sexual frustration, that it's often that the woman is not having the sex that she wants.
And that, you know, in that same vein, and just on my own research and my own experiences, with clients and stuff, there is definitely something to be said about women not recognizing that they don't want the sex that they're being offered. And I think that how that shows up for a lot of people, and that's, that's not how it's shown up for you, but how it shows up for a lot of people is it shows up as how they're interpreting it is a loss of libido. And a lot of times that's why sometimes you see people and it's like they've been, they've been in a long, long-term relationship for a long time. The relationship turned sexless, and then as soon as that relationship ends, all of a sudden they're fucking again. But a lot of it is because they didn't want the sex that was available to them.
And I think that one of the reasons that that might be true is because of the complacency that often sets in when you are having a consistent partner or married or in a long-term relationship, that it's so easy to start going through the motions. And people don't think, you know, everyone thinks they won't do that, you know, or that's not gonna be them. But that's how humans are. The human brain loves repetition so much because it's easier and you don't have to think about doing that. The brain is always looking for efficiency and so doing something repeatedly is efficient and sex is not the exception to that.
Niara:
Yeah. I've had that problem. I'm not currently having that issue. In my last actual monogamous situation, that was definitely the case. I just stopped wanting to have sex. I think that mentally I just wasn't in a good space. But I also wasn't interested in the sex that was being offered to me. And actually, I'm on the other side of that now. I don't know if it's necessarily that he doesn't want the sex that's being offered to him, at least that I'm aware of. But he's in such a mental space that he can't give me the type, especially the frequency and the in-depthness of sex that I would prefer, which is not turning me off. I'm just trying to catch it any chance I get!
I'm always ready now!
Stacey:
Well I think, I think that this is good because of course there is a stereotype that says that men are always ready. And I have talked about this and I have written about it many times cuz it's not true. Men are not always ready. But there is this idea that people with penises are just ready to go at the drop of the hat and they'll take sex anytime, anywhere, as long as it's being offered to them, which is not true. I guess it's kind of like the idea that men are always eating leftovers. They don't care what they eat. That's not true for everybody. And it's not true consistently for even anybody. Men also have these seasons where their desire wanes and for a lot of reasons, sometimes it's money problems or they are overwhelmed at work or things are going on with the family or just overwhelm in general.
And I think people are in a space, the whole humanity is in a space of overwhelm and overload and over stimulation, you know, for a variety of reasons, including, but not limited to, covid in the last couple of years. And all of this undercurrent stuff and the political state and the war in the Ukraine, like all these different things has created an overwhelm, a general malaise on the human race in general. And so I think that that is showing up for a lot of people with penises. And even though it's never been true, but I think that it's becoming more aware, some men right now just don't have the capacity to pretend that that's not what's happening. I think in the past there has been such a conditioning to maintain a bravado, even if it's false. And I think that the last couple of years have just been so much that I think that some people with, you know, I'm trying to really be inclusive. I really think that a lot of people with penises or people that identify as male just do not have the capacity to fake it right now. And that they are, even if they don't have language for it, having a lot more weighted emotions that are causing energy drains and, you know, it does take a lot of energy to...
Niara:
Be the penetrator.
Stacey:
Yes. To be the penetrator. To have an erection to, to ejaculate even. I mean, there are people that I have heard that don't even have the energy to masturbate because ejaculating is just, the idea of ejaculating is just too exhausting right now.
Niara:
That's fair. And that's fair. On a side note, I've also been thinking about the fact that I have penis envy sometimes – a lot of the time.
Stacey:
Okay. Tell me more about that.
Niara:
So I was listening to my own, sex educator, which I wish I could think of her actual name. I know her name is Michelle, but I cannot think of her last name right now. But she was talking about penis envy and I was like, oh girl, I have that too. Like, sometimes you just be like, wow, what a life you live with a dick, you know?
Stacey:
Tell me a little bit more, beyond the phallus itself, like what else?
Niara:
Oh, I think that's it. I don't think it goes beyond the physical, um, thing. Like I don't wish to be male. I don't desire the male experience. I quite enjoy being and identifying as female, but just literally having a penis and being the penetrator.
Stacey:
I don't know if I would've called it penis envy. I definitely hold penises in very high esteem. They're so fascinating. I don't know if I envy, but I definitely admire, you know, like I can't seem to keep my hands off of my partner's penis. I I want to touch it all the time, and it's not always sexual. I think that he did not understand that at first, but my touching his penis is not because I want to have sex. It is not an invitation. I'm not trying to be provocative. Like sometimes I just touch it. I don't have to be looking at it. Like we could be in public and I'll cop feel or whatever.
Just this week he was, um, he was lying down on the floor stretching naked and I just couldn't stop looking, you know, because like looking at the way, like when he crossed his leg over how the penis just kind of moved and folded and, you know, and then just watching like how the scrotum looks from, from beneath with the legs up. Like, I was just so fascinated. He thought it was hilarious, but I just thought like, wow, that is so fascinating. I guess people who don't have vaginas feel the same way. I know that there are a lot of people who don't have, I won't say boobs because everyone, not everyone, the majority of humans, that's one thing we have in common is we all have breasts and nipples for the most part, but the people who don't have enlarged mammary's and vaginas, talk about this fascination. And I've definitely had partners who just wanted to look at my pussy. Like I just wanna look at it. And I don't think I really got that before. It's just like, okay, you know, I have this, so that doesn't seem special to me. But now that I have grown into this space where I'm just so enamored and fascinated by penises or penai, is it pe Penises? Penises. Is penai one, is that a thing?
Niara:
No, penis. Penises.
Stacey:
Oh, right, right, right. Anyways, English. But I don't think I, I don't know if it's envy. I don't know if, I don't know if I have penis envy, but I definitely have penis fascination and penis admiration. And I definitely find them endlessly fascinated. I literally could look all day, you know, like I think when they get engorged it's just like, wow, look at how much he grows and when the colors change. Like my partner when he gets an erection, his penis gets very warm and it's just like, wow. I can feel how much of a difference in degree and temperature this is from the rest of your body. And I think that that's, you know, fascinating. I mean, and vaginas when they get engorged, they get flush and they turn colors too. So, you know, I mean the tissue behaves very similarly. When I am very aroused or right before orgasm, my clitoris gets very, very erect. So it behaves very similarly, but it's just not the same.
Niara:
No. And that's what I'm saying, like, wow, I want one. You know, like not all the time, but just like, wow, that, that must be cool. I mean, everyone thinks that something different is, you know. But no, I've always loved genitalia, vaginas, penises. I wanna look at it all.
Stacey:
I have a different admiration for vaginas than I do well vulvas than I do...
Niara:
Well for you there's also not a sexual attraction attached to a vagina.
Stacey:
No, I haven't ever seen a vagina that I found to be... that triggered some kind of arousal for me. I hope that I do someday though. I still have that, you know, like I still hope that I, I cuz I've had attraction to women, but I haven't had an experience to have an attraction to a vagina or a vulva. But I find them fascinating. Like I guess I'm genuinely fascinated with the human body in general because I think it's like so amazing and how it heals itself and it grows and look at these, you know, fingers and toes and look, they were really small and now they're really big anyways. But I haven't had an attraction to a vulva. I hope I do someday though.
Niara:
I just, like, my ego just wants me to be like really good at eating pussy for some reason.
Stacey:
You know? I can't visualize myself eating pussy. I don't say, but I'm not opposed to it, you know?
Niara:
Yeah. It just doesn't, it's not something, well, you've never even swam in that water. You never even dipped your toe in that once. So...
Stacey:
During my young explorative years, you know, there was lots of girl kissing and dry humping and, you know, fingers touching. I don't know that it was, I think it was just, you know, you explore where you are with who's available to you. And I think that people don't wanna talk about that, but that's usually how kids discover sexuality. At the time, I was so young. I don't think that I even had any kind of awareness about, you know, boys and girls and what I liked per se. Again, I think it was just, you're in the single digits and these people are around and the majority of the people you play with usually, you know, share gender similarities. I think that all it was. But, you know, now that I'm older and I have had a couple of times where I was very aware that I felt attraction for someone who had the same parts as me. But I haven't had an experience where I've been able to kind of explore that. But maybe someday.
Niara:
I was just talking about how I'm waiting on my girlfriend. Like, where is she at? I've literally just had that conversation this week. I don't know where she is.
Stacey:
Well, you know what Rumi says, what you seek is seeking you.
Niara:
Yeah. I haven't never looked that hard.
Stacey:
Yeah. Hmm. I'm still thinking about penis envy. Yeah. I don't know that, I don't know that I have penis envy. I think I might just have general, general general
Niara:
Genitalia.
Stacey:
Yes. General genital admiration. Anyways. Hmm. What do you plan to do about your sexual frustration? Like how does that... how are you navigating that when your situation-ship?
Niara:
I'm not navigating it.
Stacey:
So do you guys just not talk about it?
Niara:
No, I actually didn't know I was sexually frustrated to like this week. I also was premenstrual, but you know, those things be real, you know, I don't dismiss them coming. I'm premenstrual. I have for a long time had the motto of like, my reaction may have been disproportionate, but the trigger and the feelings were real. Just, it didn't need to be all of, you know, when I'm pre-menstrual sometimes I don't feel that the punishment matches to the crime, especially when interacting with other people. But that doesn't negate the fact that the feelings I was having were feelings I was having. So, I wasn't necessarily frustrated prior to being premenstrual. That doesn't mean I wasn't having these thoughts and feelings and they weren't reoccurring. But no, we just don't deal with it. Um, I'm in such a space thanks to the great power of marijuana that, I just am, this too shall passing everything.
And it's not, doesn't mean to say that I'm not dealing with things, but, I'm just in a space where I have bigger fish to fry. And so like, when it, when something is not working out, I just like let it roll. Like it'll work itself out or I will get to a space where I'm ready to handle it and work it out, you know, um, actively instead of passively. So that's where I'm at with that too. It's not like we're not having sex, but you know, when I'm ready to do something different, I've been saying that a lot too. When I'm ready to do something different, I'll do something different.
Stacey:
Well, I, I think that there's something to be said about having that awareness for yourself though. That, and also having the awareness that not everything that comes up needs to be addressed and dealt with in that space and time or ever, you know, there are some things that don't necessarily have to be dealt with. I didn't have that at your age. I really thought that every feeling that I had and everything I needed to express it and I needed to deal with it in real time, which wasn't always conducive to whatever, you know, whoever my partner was at the time. Whether that was doable for them, I didn't really have the cognition to even consider. It's just like, no, we need to communicate and talk this out right now. Now I have a different perspective about that because it isn't just, you know, what one person wants or, or some ever, like now I've, I do filter through the lens of like, is this something that needs to be addressed and is this something that I need to work through with my partner or within myself? Cuz some shit is just my shit and it might involve him, but it is just my shit.
Niara:
You're so, um, what's the word? You're just so communal. Like you're so community oriented because like we're having the same results, but mine's completely self-centered. It is. That's so fascinating. Because mine is, when I'm ready to deal with it, it's going to get, but I'm just not ready right now. Like, it just doesn't feel pressing. And I know it's cuz the structure of our current situation and just like the culmination of our experiences.
Stacey:
And you're talking about you and you don't, you don't call him your partner. How do you refer to him?
Niara:
Partner? Yeah, I guess I mean
Stacey:
Just non-committed.
Niara:
Yeah. It, it's kind of come to... not a boiling point, but like I think we're at, we're on our last leg as far as shenanigans goes for like this era of our relationship. If we move further in, you know, time, I think that obviously there'll be more room for fuckups and all that and stuff like that, but right now I think we're like not in a space. So I just compare it up against that like, is this thing worth pressing that could potentially fuck up what we got going on right now? And so if it's not, then I can solve it in as easily and slowly. It doesn't have to be like this big huge thing because like if it's a mountain we can't get over, this is probably the last can't get over. You know, there's no turning back. Just cause I think we're both frustrated with the one again, off again thing.
So, on top of the fact that I also have had a whole new thing about accountability and my thing is I know I'm choosing this with this person that I know acts this way. So what do I look like saying yes and then complaining about what I said yes to. So that's a lot of me not needing to shove it in his face cuz it's just like, but I already knew because the things that, some of the things that are stopping us from having the experience that I would like sexually has a lot to do with like, physicality and all that. So it's like, but I already knew. You know?
Stacey:
Well, kudos to you for taking the high road and also for not trying to make someone else fit into a box that you knew they weren't designed for in the first place.
Niara:
You know, that frustrates the shit outta him actually.
Stacey:
Really? Your acceptance frustrates him?
Niara:
I think that my willingness to leave it alone frustrates him. Like, I don't think you know it, it's, it comes off so blase, you know how I am...
Stacey:
I know how you are.
Niara:
And so like, I don't care, but it's just like I don't have the energy to, because like in being self-centered, I don't have a you and I win, you know, like I don't compromise is, I'm really not the greatest mentally. Like I can compromise if someone else brings it up, but that is never my first option. My first option is me getting what I want. I don't want it. So...
Stacey:
Only child problems!
Niara:
Man. So, that being said, if I'm not gonna get what I want, then I'm just not like, I'm just not interested. And so I think that that's the part, which is definitely a me problem. But that's the part is that, um, my answer to everything is when I'm ready to do something about it, I will. And he doesn't like that cuz it feels like rejection I think. And I also think that he's used to people trying to control him, you know, cuz he is eclectic and countercultural and all those things to a certain extent, you know, he's a little offbeat. And so I think that he's used to people trying to like, make him fit into this box. And I'm like, no, do you, I'm just not gonna deal with it. I'm not going to try to force you to do something else when I'm ready to not be dealing with this, I won't be dealing with this. Whether that means we work it out together and it changes within our situation or we no longer have a situation.
Stacey:
Hmm. I can see how that would feel, how that could make someone feel like they're disposable though.
Niara:
I agree. I agree.
Stacey:
I noticed your agreement is not anything, but you understand and not that there's a willingness to shift that.
Niara:
Um, you know, me shifting that is just not bringing it up. That's, I'm in the first step of the process of changing that cuz you know, I actually am like such a terrorist in relationships. Like I realize that I'm just a menace. Like I... that is a role that I have like chosen. And so me not being a menace and just like not bringing it up and trying not to, and trying to regulate my emotions and reactions to the point where, again, honestly it's just like me being smoking and sitting with stuff and just like really shuffling through and just learning how to take a beat before I react to things. Like that's what's happening right now in terms of, I can't say my mentality has changed, but just not reacting in a way that would make them, you know, like what we were talking about earlier about parents and kids, like, you know, wanting something to be different for the sake of wanting better for the person or wanting better for the situation. In this instance, wanting better for my own interests. Um, it doesn't have to result in me acting frustrated and you know grumpy, and all those things. It just doesn't need to be all that. So that's, I can't, yeah, like I said, my mentality hasn't changed, but the part of me understanding is realizing that I don't have to, you know, forcefully be trying to fit a circle into a square.
Stacey:
Well, there's something to be said about being aware of, um, how you are, like how you function and then being able to verbalize and vocalize that to someone so that then they're in choice of whether they want to deal with that or not. So I think that there's something to be said about that cuz you know, there's one thing to have thoughts about how someone is and to want them to be different because I don't get, from just what I know of him. I don't imagine him, even though he's used to someone, you know, trying to change him, he doesn't, his willingness to change is not there. Even in that situation. This is what I imagined.
Niara:
From what I know of him as well.
Stacey:
You know, that's why that's interesting. Like, so you mad and it, you, it frustrates you that, that it frustrates him that you're not trying to change him at the same time. I don't imagine that the people in his past who did try, they weren't successful.
Niara:
I mean I agree.
Stacey:
So I think that there's something to be said about your being aware of it and aware of how you feel about it and aware of your mindset and even aware that you're not ready to shift that. And consequently not putting that on him, because that's usually what it looks like is that there isn't an awareness of how the person, how you are, but, and there is an awareness of maybe that the person isn't who you want them to be and then still burdening them with that.
Niara:
Yeah.
Stacey:
You know what I mean?
Niara:
I think for me it's come from an acceptance of...You know, that some people are here for a reason or some people are here for a season or whatever that saying is. And you know, in theory I would love this to be a forever thing, but I also know that, you know, God willing, we're in the early stages of our lives and the rest of our lives is a long time, you know? So just accepting that a person is, I think that we were brought into each other's lives to teach each other a lot of things. That's definitely very apparent in our interaction. I think that in the time that we've spent together, we both have grown a lot, especially when it comes to romantic and interpersonal relationships. And like I'm okay with that and I've accepted that and I don't like, that's another reason why I don't feel like I need to like force something that doesn't need to be forced.
I feel like what we're getting out of this situation and the bond that we're sharing and the way that we've been able to lean on each other and one could probably say trauma bond, you know, in as healthy way as you can, I guess. I think that all those things are happening and it's opened both of us up to a lot of things we didn't know about ourselves before. And I think we're just in a, both of us are in a time of transition in our lives and if we come out on the other side holding hands perfect. And if we don't, we'll have all of these great things to remember.
Stacey:
Well, I think that that's good. And I also think that, you know, this, this conversation just to, just to bring it back and, and to close a circle, it's important I think to recognize that sex in real life, includes all of these things that it is not just about, you know, what you do with your genitals or touching and looking and doing all those things. And it's not just about flirting and are we getting ready to, or did we just finish fucking like, there's so much more to sex and sexuality that doesn't include sex and sexuality and all of these other things come into play, and in outside of the bed, the metaphorical bedroom, but also they impact, you know, how when, why, or if you're going to have sex, like sex in real life is about everything and not just about the deed itself. So thank you for being willing to talk about your sexual frustration and about just being transparent about like how you are in this space and the different dynamics that come into play that, that are not necessarily about sex but are about sex too.
Niara:
For sure. For sure. Thank you for having me.
Niara is a trendy millennial who loves all things music and beauty related. She's always looking for new ways to stay creative and pursue her passions, whether wilding out to the latest bop or trying out the latest beauty trends. Her quick-witted vibrant personality makes her the life of the party. And she's taking on the world one beat at a time!
The Sex in Real Life podcast is produced and hosted by me, Stacey Herrera. You can follow me on Twitter and subscribe to my weekly newsletter.
Our theme music is by Magiksolo.
Thank you for listening and supporting positive conversations about sex and relationships.
Exploring Sexual Frustration: A Conversation on Navigating Intimacy Struggles